Timmensdorfer, Germany -- 1961
The Autopsy
While stationed at NATO's Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers, Europe,
Robert O. Dean, retired Army command sergeant major, had cosmic clearance
to the NATO document "Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible Military
Threat to Allied Forces in Europe." He secretly recorded notes on this
classified material, in particular the autopsy of the aliens captured at
Timmensdorfer. Upon retirement, he presented his findings to the public and
is actively trying to gain public access to this NATO document.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: "Inside the Military UFO Underground", Omni Magazine,
Vol. 16, No. 7, April 1994, pp. 48-59 by A.J.S. Rayl.
Subject: An Interview with Robert O. Dean
The appendix that really got to me was titled 'Autopsies.' I saw pictures
of a 30-meter disc that had crashed in Timmensdorfer, Germany, near the
Baltic Sea in 1961. The British Army, according to the report, got there
first and put up a perimeter. The craft had landed in very soft, loamy soil
near the Russian border and so hadn't destructed, but one-third of it was
buried in. We and the Russians, who also quickly showed up, had both
tracked it.
Inside, there were 12 small bodies, all dead. There were pictures of the
bodies, which looked like the beings known as the 'grays,' being laid out
and then put on stretchers and loaded into jeeps, and autopsy photos, too.
Some of the little grays appeared to not be a reproductive-capable species.
The autopsy guys concluded, according to the report, that it looked as if
they had been cut out of a cookie cutter--clones with no alimentary tract.
They did not ingest or process food as we know it, nor did it appear that
they had any system for elimination.
The craft itself was cut up like a pie into six pieces, put on lowboys and
hauled off. Scuttlebutt was that it was given to the Americans and flown to
Wright-Patterson Air Force base in Ohio. I looked at these pictures and
couldn't believe it. My skin got cold and I thought, My God. I had never
really believed we were all alone in the universe, but this was hard to
swallow.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to UFO Crash Home Page
[Image] [Image]
The Truth Will Be Known
SIAM
Last Modified Feb. 8, 1996.
EXCERPTED FROM UFO UPDATE AZ
(To subscribe to UFO Update AZ, write to: UFO Update AZ, 12629 N.Tatum,
Suite 109, Phoenix AZ 85032, USA. The cost is $8.95 for one year quarterly
subscription.)
An Interview with Retired Sergeant-Major Robert Dean
by Bruce Roger Anderson
Update: Thanks Bob for joining me in this interview. I want to ask you some
questions, interview of sorts, for UFO Update AZ. The first question is
when did you first get interested in UFOs.
Bob: Well we're going back a few years here. I really became curious in the
50's, even in the late 40's. I was a student at the University of Indiana
when all of this began, the big flaps began around at 1947. Kenneth Arnold,
the rumors and the fly-overs, I was curious, but I was skeptical. It was a
passing interest I would say. I really didn't get deeply involved in this
thing until 1963 when I was assigned SHAPE [Supreme Headquarters Allied
Powers Europe] Headquarters in Paris, France. I was a professional soldier,
as you probably know - most of my adult life, and most of those were in
special operations, special assignments here and there. Over the years
IAEve had assignments, I led combat troops in Korea 1951, I led
intelligence operations patrols in South Vietnam 1970. I've had a long
history of interesting, special, unusual assignments and as a result of my
training and background -I had been given a TOP SECRET classification many,
many years ago. But when I was assigned to SHAPE Headquarters in Paris in
1963, I was given an upgrade from a TOP SECRET to COSMIC TOP SECRET, and I
had to have that in order to work in the operations division in a place we
call SHOC, the Supreme Headquarters Operations Center, which is the war
room actually, the NATO war room and I had my clearance upgraded to COSMIC
TOP SECRET, (which by the way is a real legitimate classification), it's
the highest NATO has. Now in the United States we have classifications that
are at least 40 levels above TOP SECRET. The whole field is so
compartmentalized, there are people who have TOP SECRET clearances that do
not have access to certain kinds of information. The thing is broken down
according to the subject, and your need to know. In military operations in
every service, this security thing has become a nightmare over the years.
We created it ourselves. We did it during W.W.II and during the Cold War
years. You can have the highest level of classification in one particular
area, and that will not allow you access to information in another area.
It's the compartmentalization aspect of it. For example there are four star
generals who do not know a damn thing about the UFO phenomena, they really
don't know... First of all they have never been told. Secondly they have
not had access to the information, because under the security system it may
have been determined that they didn't have a need to know. I could talk to
you about the security problems in this country for hours, because it is
one of my biggest complaints. We created a nightmare for ourselves,
literally, during the Cold War years. We let it get out of hand. Bobby Ray
Inman, as a matter of fact who is a retired admiral, has said repeatedly--
he used to be the director of the Central Intelligence Agency-- he was the
deputy director of the National Security Agency, a four star admiral, one
of our top security people- he said that upon retirement we've got a bunch
of people over there that are running loose, out of control. He was
referring to Langley and Fort Meade. These two locations where CIA and NSA
are located. So there are people who know that we've got ourselves a real
problem. I have a tendency to ramble a bit, so you'll have to get me back
on the subject. The reason I am wandering on this subject is that it's a
matter of great importance to me, because the security systems that we have
created over the years are literally trashing our constitutional system.
The United States' Constitution is literally being trashed and flushed down
the toilet by top bureaucrats in the intelligence agencies, guys in the
Department of Defense who are totally violating the constitutional process
are making national policy on this particular issue that we are discussing
this afternoon. They do not have oversight. The oversight should be either
the legislative or the executive branches of the government. They are up to
their ears in the black budget program, that you have probably heard about,
which has reached about $50 billion a year right now, and the black budget
systems themselves are a violation of the Constitution. The fact that they
could spend $50 billion dollars of your money every year, of the peoples
money, and not have to go to Congress and account for it, or explain where
it is going.
Update: As a result of your COSMIC TOP SECRET clearance, you came across a
document at NATO....
Bob: I arrived at SHAPE Headquarters in 1963, the Supreme Headquarters for
Allied Powers in Europe, which is the military arm of NATO, which was
located in a little town of Rouquencourt, right outside of Paris. I arrived
in 1963 and began working in the war room, had my security clearance
upgraded to COSMIC TOP SECRET, so I had access to the war room. I had heard
rumors and gossip. When I arrived in 1963 I had learned of the study that
was initiated in 1961, the subject was UFOs. Many of us talked about
rumors, gossip, one thing or another, and I was curious, because here we
are in one of the top military headquarters in the world and I learned that
they had initiated a study in 1961, because we and the Soviets and the
Warsaw Pact people, had almost gone to war with each other a few times,
several times actually, over the UFO matter. Because, these large circular
metallic objects were flying over Europe, coming out of the Soviet zone,
over the Warsaw Pact. They would fly in formation at a high altitude, at a
high rate of speed and they would fly obviously under intelligent control,
and for awhile the Soviets thought they'd belonged to us and for a time we
thought they belonged to the Soviets. Whenever they would show up over
Europe, and demonstrated their capability, this high tech that they had,
obviously intelligently controlled, the Soviets got all wound up and
uptight, they'd go on alert, we'd go on alert, they'd close the Berlin
gates and one thing or another, it happened time and time again. It is
important to remember, in those years, they we are facing each other,
across a divided Europe, literally-our fingers on the trigger, thumbs
poised above the red buttons and World War III was just moments away. The
last damn thing we needed, in those years, was some kind of unknown
unexpected ingredient being thrown into the pot, and that's what this
matter became. In 1961 an event occurred in early February, in the wee
hours of the morning, I believe it was the second of February in 1961,
where we almost went to war, and when this thing was over, and it was over
in about 25 minutes or so, because they never lasted very long, these
things would appear, they'd fly over Europe and get everyone all upset and
excited and they would turn north over the channel, over and disappear off
of NATO's radar over the Norwegian Sea. It was almost a standard pattern.
Well, in February of 1961. Air Marshall Sir Thomas Pike who was the Deputy
Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, the Deputy SACEUR, as we called him. He
was a highly decorated British Air Marshal, he was the deputy to my boss,
General Lyman Lamnitzer, Lamnitzer was SACEUR. Pike said we've got to do
something about this, I learned later, and he said we can't let this
continue, we're going to have to find out what the hell is happening. We're
getting no help from London or Washington on the subject, which is another
story, because in those days there was an enormous French spy ring
operating outside of Paris, involving ministers, generals, admirals, and
you could read all about it in Leon Uris' excellent book entitled "Topaz,"
as a matter of fact, Topaz was made into a movie, that was well done. Any
how, we'd get nothing from London or Washington because of the nature of
the subject, because anything they would give us would go to Moscow and the
KGB, in many cases before we got it in SHAPE. On this subject, which I
learned later, was the most highly sensitive subject in all of our modern
military history. All over the world, all over the US, all over Europe,
nothing was forthcoming from either Washington or London on this subject.
So, Pike initiated an in-house study in 1961, after this event in February
to determine what the hell was happening. They called it an "assessment",
but they gave it a subtitle Of A Possible Military Threat To The Allied
Forces In Europeoe. It was a military study with a military purpose, with
no other purpose at all, other than to determine if there was a military
threat here. It was not a broad based vast in-depth analysis, it was simply
a determination of what was happening, and do we have to be involved.
Are we threatened in some way? I think that is important to understand. The
study was three years in it's completion from 1961 to 1964. When they
published it in 1964, and I was still there working in the war room. They
published it in 15 copies, COSMIC TOP SECRET. Copy one went to the
Secretary General of NATO, who funded the thing, copy two went to General
Lamnitzer (my boss), and copy three was placed in the vault in the war
room. When it was published in 1964- I worked in there sometimes into the
wee hours of the morning- when you're bored and as I said jokingly the
coffee's too black to drink, sometimes you pull things out of the vault and
you read them. And one morning it happened to me, this Air Force
controller, a Bird Colonel, who was in charge of the shift that morning,
and pulled this thing out of the vault and he said here read this, this
will wake you up.
Well, I've often thought I'd like to track that Colonel down, cause it
didn't only wake me up, but changed my life. At the time I was a Master
Sergeant working in the war room. I was kinda sassy, I thought I was pretty
tough, I had a crew cut, I was a no-nonsense soldier. I had some good
assignments and I was in a choice field. I was getting top assignments
because of my classification level. This document, in 1964, literally,
shook the shit out of me, and I have never been the same since. It is
important that I explain this to you, because this was not a game to me, I
was interested, curious, skeptical but nothing much more than that. When I
saw this thing in 1964, read it, read it repeatedly, studied it, pulled the
annexes out, looked at all the annexes, look at the photographs, the
autopsy reports, the detailed analysis of experts all over Europe, it
dawned on me that, Jesus, this is not only real, but this is more than
real, this is not a joke, this is not science fiction, this isn't fantasy.
Then the implications of it began to hit me, when I began to realize it
wasn't simply a matter of hardware, extraterrestrial visitation, because
you can get beyond that; that becomes a reality, this is not that difficult
to handle. As a student of astronomy years ago when I was at the
University, I never dreamed for a moment that we were alone. I knew, I just
kinda assumed that the universe is literally teeming with intelligent life.
I think anybody that had any other kind of an idea was out of their minds.
The idea that we are all alone out here, we are all there is, I thought
this can't possibly be. But to have it laid in front of you as a reality
with the impact of it day after day, after day-- the study the conclusion--
it makes an impact that you never quite ever get away from . I am one of
those people who do not know how you can walk into this with an open mind,
study the evidence that's available and ever turn your back on it and leave
it alone. I don't know how people can do that.
Update: You mentioned autopsy reports.....
Bob: In the study there were autopsy reports. There had been a crash of a
large 30 meter disk in Northern Germany, just about and mile and a half
from the Baltic Sea in a little town called Timmensdorfer-strand. It was
the early 1960s, 1963, late 60s or early 64. This 30--meter disk crashed,
never did know why, what caused it to crash, but it went into
Timmensdorfer-strand near the Baltic, and when the British Army Engineer
Battalion which got there, this happened in the British zone of occupation.
As you know Germany was divided up among the British, French and Americans
in those years, a carry over from the cold wars and occupation. When the
British army got into this thing they found twelve small bodies. And when I
say small bodies, I'm talking about little dudes, not human, humanoid, but
not human. Three and a half to four feet tall and sometimes a little more.
But what was so interesting is that in the autopsy report, the British
medical examiner remarked, and I'm sure that this thing was recorded and
transcribed, because it was conversations that they were having as they
conducted the autopsy, their exclamations, remarks like "holy shit", "Jesus
Christ", oh my God look at this. Just sort of off the cuff comments and
observations by the medical examiner as they're conducting the autopsy.
These guys were all the same, absolutely identical, there's no difference,
there is no reproductive capability that we could determine, there's no
alimentary tract, no rectum, no teeth. What the hell were we dealing with
here? Comments like biological android, clones, they used a whole bunch of
different things. It's almost like these guys are made in some lab
somewhere. They are all identical!
Update: Were there any notations regarding, any recordings being made, like
audio or video recordings of these autopsies?
Bob: There were audio recordings. I am convinced the autopsy was conducted
on tape, as today when a medical examiner is conducting an autopsy, there
is a tape recording going. What they do is they have a transcription of the
tape that they have for evidence if it is a criminal case. Well, this is
what they did. There was no video, we had video back then, but it was not a
state of the art that was widely used, that was widely used particularly in
the military. The British Engineer Battalion that retrieved the object and
the bodies did with what they had, they worked with what they had, they
brought in medical examiners. I saw photographs of them taking the ship
apart. There were photos of them breaking it into wedges, it came apart
like a pie. There were roughly about 6 pieces. Then they loaded the pieces
on lowboys and hauled them away. I saw photographs, the whole crash, taking
the bodies out. There were bodies, there were close ups of the stretchers.
There were close ups of the bodies, and they had on some kind of little
suits. There were no survivors whatsoever. The observations made during the
autopsy, what shocked me the most, there was a fluid in the bodies, but it
wasn't like blood. They apparently had lungs and they had a heart, but that
was about the only real similarity with a human being. There was no way
they ingested or evacuated nourishment, and the question arose, how in the
hell did these guys get nourished. In the mouth, I remember there was
observation of little membranes, four or five membranes in the mouth, no
teeth as all, and as I said no alimentary tract. So there must have been
some process to ingest the nutrients and to assimilate it, but there was no
way to process waste products, these guys had no rectums, there were no
sexual organs.
Update: Were there any problems dissecting the aliens - any noxious gases?
Bob: Not at this time, nothing I remember reading about. This was a rather
quick kind of a thing. The autopsies were conducted within hours, I would
say, of the crash. There have been cases in our country where the bodies
have been laying out in the sun or in the desert, whatever, for a
couple-few days, and I think that is probably why we have these reports of
gas that have been so noxious that upset people so much. I keep hearing
that report about Roswell, I think some of these little bodies have been
lying in the sun for awhile. I'll tell you first hand, that a human body
smells pretty bad when it is in the process of decay, but there was no
remark that I remember reading that indicated the objects, individuals,
whatever they were, had an odor of their own. The fluid was interesting.
They remarked that it was some kind of yellowish, greenish substance, and
one of the medical examiners said that, oIt reminds me of chlorophyll.oe I
mean what are we dealing with here. There was a heart, a pump that
circulated the fluid and there were apparently a couple of lungs that was
just basically were to bring in oxygen of some form.
Now bear in mind this is 1964, and what was finally put into the SHAPE
Study, The Assessment, the conclusions reached after that were basically
stuff that our own military had learned as early as 1949. Now I think, that
you've done your homework and you know this to be so, that Operation SIGN,
Operation GRUDGE, all of the reports and investigations conducted by the
Air Force back in 1940's and 1950's, all had basically reached the same
conclusion that the SHAPE Study Investigation in 1964, but we didn't know
that in Europe at the time because the US was not sharing any of this, they
were not forthcoming. The only country the US has been open with and shared
with over the years, is Great Britain. In 1947, the United States, England,
Australia, Canada, New Zealand, signed a pact, this was a famous pact, it
is a part of history, the records are very clear.
The English speaking nations of the world signed this pact to share jointly
among each other, intelligence. Intelligence that was attained through
electronic or through individual or personal means. The nations signed this
agreement among themselves, to share. So, the only people which we have
shared with is the British, and the same with Australia and Canada as well.
That pact that was signed in 1947, I believe is what lead to the ongoing
sharing of UFO information over the years. Two years ago, while I was
visiting in England, the Admiral Peter Hill Norton, you probably have heard
of him.
Lord Peter Hill Norton was the British Chief of Defense for seven years,
equivalent to a five--star admiral. His job was the same as the Chairman of
the Joint Chief of Staff. He was the senior number one military man in all
of Great Britain. Timothy Goode and I spent some time with the retired
Admiral a few years ago. Lord Hill Norton was livid because he had never
ever been given any information during his years as Chief of the British
Defense Staff on this subject. His staff, some of them, had lied to him and
mislead him.
The point I'm getting at is that we and the British did share the
information, but apparently they didn't let Lord Hill Norton in on it, when
he was the chief of the staff. This study, as I told you, was released to
all 15 members of the nations, the military nations that were involved in
the alignment in 1964. Only 15 copies were ever made. When France withdrew
from the military alliance in 1967, General De Gaulle threw us out of
France. Now this is another bit of history, IAEve often thought it tied in
with this big scandal involving the spy rings, but in 1967, one of my last
duties while I was at the headquarters, was to help pack up the
headquarters and move it to a new location at Belgium. They built a new
multi-million dollar facility outside Brussels and in the summer 1967. I
was in the process of helping move the headquarters. We had an enormous
amount of material, classified material, tons of documents that had to be
moved under controlled situation. oThe Assessmentoe was a part of it. And
we were thrown out of France. Now De Gaulle remained a member of NATO but
he withdrew from the military alliance and that is why we had to pack up
and leave, and when we did so, we required the French to return their copy
of The Assessment, which they did after about 8 weeks of delay, and many of
us in the headquarters knew exactly what they were doing, they were copying
the damn thing. Not long after that, France established an organization
known as GEPAN, the letters G. E. P. A. N., and I don't even want to try
and explain to you what they meant, but it was their own national UFO
investigative service. It was a government organization. It was under the
Gendarmerie [the French Constabulary].
Update: We were talking about The Assessment. Is there any way the general
public can access that document?
Bob: Let me explain a little something. Cecilia [Bob's wife] and I went to
Europe two years ago to attend an international conference in Dusseldorf.
We took a weekend in between and visited SHAPE. We drove over to Brussels,
rented a car and went on down to Casteau, which is the little town in
Belgium, where SHAPE is now located near by. Because of my background and
my ID and my records, I was able to get access to the headquarters. Cecilia
and I spent an entire day at SHAPE taking a tour, going and visiting some
of the old departments, trying to find out if any of my old cronies were
still around, and frankly, sadly enough no. I learned however, from a
connection with the Command Sergeant Major, we in the military, I'm a
retired Command Sergeant Major, we have what is called an old boy's
network" and we help each other. I learned that The Assessment was still in
the files, it was still classified COSMIC TOP SECRET and it is still
considered to be the most sensitive document NATO has. Now this was two
years ago and no I don't believe your Freedom of Information Act means a
damn thing because it isn't working here in this country. The Freedom of
Information Act is the United States' law allowing United States' citizens
to have access to material and that ain't working. Any federal judge in
response to a request for NSA or CIA can deny you access, the Freedom of
Information Act material. Now you probably have done your own homework and
have learned thatAEs happened. We've gotten releases of documents that were
95% blacked out. Stanton Friedman, whoAEs a friend of mine, loves to hold
them up in front of people and says we've got this document through NSA,
it's 65 pages, so he holds it up and spreads out and says look we've got 3
pages here that we can read. Well that's my feeling about the Freedom of
Information Act, and it doesn't even apply to a NATO document. We have an
interesting political structure, there in NATO. You've probably been
following it over the years. We have all of these nations involved, I can
tell having been there for been there for five years. It is a bit of a
nightmare in itself. Documentation procedures, administrating procedures
are a hodge podge of 15 nations. Documents are supposed to be primarily
published in English with copies in German and French. Those were the three
major operative languages in SHAPE NATO. But the Greeks would create a
document and write it in Greek, and sometimes it would take months if not
years to get the documents translated. This is a tiny aside, that shows you
how difficult it is in working with a multi-international headquarters. I
made inquiries when I was talking with the admiral over there, whether The
Freedom of Information Act would mean anything. We learned that it would
not. Doesn't apply at all to NATO European documentation. We tried to get
access to the document itself through some connections with the admiral
Lord Hill Norton. He has a lot of old boy network connections. He tried
repeatedly to get access to some of the material, and they froze him out!
This is a five star admiral. You know of course you are dealing with the
most sensitive issue in the history of the human race. It is the most
highly classified sensitive issue in the US military security history. It's
a multi-national cover-up. We found out the freedom of information act is
not applicable at all.
Update: Has it [a hardcopy of the report] ever been leaked?
Bob: There have been other old boys like myself, who have come forward and
said, Dean is telling the truth, I was there I saw the damn thing, I read
it. We have a retired Air Force three star who has said that. There are a
couple of admirals who have said that. But what is interesting to me, and I
wish you put this in your article, I recently heard from friends in Europe
that a statement made within the last six months by a retired Soviet Major
General KGB, confirmed the existence of oThe Assessmentoe. Oleg Kalugan is
a retired two star KGB general. General Kalugan has made a statement to
George Knapp or Michael Heessaman, but Kalugan said they knew that NATO
people had this study, they had a study of their own. He said that we both
studied the matter, we both learned quite early on that neither one of us
were involved in it and that it was a lot more serious then that. Now I'm
getting this, my round about way, from a retired KGB general. I'm going to
see him this year. They had over six million men in their UFO research
program. Only now is it beginning to come out. The Union collapsed. George
Knapp was over there on the streets of Moscow buying arms-full of
classified documents for American dollars. It kind of pissed me off that it
takes a foriegn agency, like the KGB, to confirm the existance of The
Assessment. That is what is so frustrating about all this crap. It is the
same damn thing about what happened up in Groom Lake. We had to get a
Soviet intelligence agent to testify that Site 51 exists. And we had to use
Soviet satellite photography to prove it. This is a recent court case
regarding some injuries of guys who were working there.
Update: Bob you have been researching for 40 years now. Why haven't you
written a book?
Bob: I have been trying to write a book for at least ten years. I've got a
pile of 400 pages of note, bits, and pieces and everything else. The only
thing I can tell you is if I could just shut up and stay home I might get
it finished. I just got back from a conference in Anaheim [California]
where I was invited to speak to the regional MENSA convention. I am leaving
Thursday for Kansas City. Then when I get back from there I will be going
to Mexico City then to Brazil. That is my problem. I am trying to finish
it. I have a title, The Time Has Come. I believe that in my heart that the
time has come for a lot of things to happen and the most important is for
the American people to be told the truth by their government.
Update: I guess that explains why you have been devoting so much time and
effort to this matter.
Bob: You know, I began as a curious skeptic and became an interested
researcher. I kept digging into classified files up to the day I retired
and they pulled my classified security clearance from me. I use to drive
some of my friends up a wall. I'd show up, have coffee, get into their
files, ask them questions etc. I have a couple of old cronies that still
work at Langley.
I have one old friend who is still hanging on at Ft. Meade, which is NSA
headquarters, and the oold boys networkoe still works pretty well. I kept
investigating until I retired and then continued investigating without
access to classified documents. I had to do other things, sometimes I had
to buy material, had to violate the law a few times and I'm not ashamed to
admit it. Over the years I have become convinced that this subject is not
only the most important subject in the history of the human race, but its
implications for the species are mind boggling. I no longer do the
traditional investigations that I use to. I don't go to the sites and pour
plaster of paris or look for pieces of metal or whatever. I interviewed
people, this and that, but now I stopped. As Alan Hynek has said, we have
an over abundance of evidence. We don't need any more. What we need is two
things: One, to put it together and make some sense out of what it means;
two, to get our government which is suppose to be for, by and of the people
to tell us the damn truth, and that's what I am working on now. I am trying
to make sense of what it really means. It is not just the hardware. We
learned when I left the military group that we were dealing with
interplanetary visitations. We also knew that we were dealing with
interstellar visitations, we were dealing with intergalactic visitations.
Would you be surprised to know that the government does know and is aware
that we are having an ongoing involvement with what appears to be
multi-dimensional intelligence. Multi- dimensional! Now this blows the
physicists out of the water. We are dealing with some intelligences that
are so far beyond us, that we would end saying two things: That they are
either gods or it's all magic. We have not come to terms with the fact that
there could be civilizations out there that could be a million years ahead
of us. Could you imagine what their technology would be like. Multi-
dimensional travel, apparently, is common place out there. The only people
I know of that can really deal with it are quantum physicists and
theologians. It is interesting to me that the theologians and physicists
are beginning to talk to each other.
Update: So you would see that the ultimate goal of ufology is to put this
information into a package that makes sense.
Bob: Yes, Bruce, I believe that people could handle this information. I
believe the people are a lot smarter than what the government has ever
given them credit for. I am a believer in people. I have two focuses of
what is left of my life. I'm an old codger now and I'm getting angry and
cantankerous because there is not a whole lot of time left. One is to wake
up the American people to this reality and start paying attention and
demand some answers, and secondly is to get this whole damn matter back
into the congressional process, the constitutional process, where it should
have been in the first place and get it out of the hands of the military
and get out of the hands of the intelligence agencies. If we don't do that
then the Constitution is finished. That's my primary purpose.
Update: Is there anything that you are currently researching?
Bob: Well, I'm currently researching the scandal of NASA. The old boys
network goes beyond the US military services. I have connections all over
the world. Japan, all over Europe, Italy, all over the United Kingdom. NASA
was created under a mandate, and a statute, which they have repeatedly
violated over the last few years. I refer you to Stan McDaniels of the
McDaniel report.
A young Japanese researcher came up to me in San Francisco and he said
"I've got some photos to show you, I've never seen these in the US before.
But, they're appearing now in Japanese books and according to the books
these are NASA photographs.oe He asked if I had ever seen them before and I
replied, "Good god no, where did you get that?" He takes me to the library
in Japan town in San Francisco and we went through the books and there were
NASA numbered and labeled photographs never before released in the US
Apollo 12, Apollo 15, Apollo 11 and they have the negative numbers and I've
got copies here which I will share with you. Now that stuff is not
available to the American people.
How the hell the Japanese got it I don't know. I'm now trying to get copies
of these documents and the negatives themselves. I had a friend who went to
a university here. The University of Arizona is suppose to have a complete
catalog access to the old Apollo pictures. Would you believe that the one
photograph we're looking for is missing, I got this out of Japanese book
published in Tokyo. This is NASA photo #AS12 (Apollo 12), negative
#50-7346, that was taken on the way to the moon when they saw an object and
they didn't know what it was and they photographed it. That happens to be
missing from the negative files over at the U.of A. Here is another one.
Hoagland [Richard Hoagland] has the same damn problem.
I'm going to have this made into a poster and share it with the American
people and tell them it was made with their own tax money. What do you
think that object is?
Update: Swamp gas?
Bob: Sure-ha-ha -A self luminating massive object that has lights on it,
circular, that was photographed by Apollo 12 near the moon. Another thing
that I'm angry about is that there is a fellow by the name of Maurice
Chatelain. I refer you to Maurice's work, he is a defense scholar. He was
the director of the Apollo communications program for many years. Chatelain
was there in Houston and at Kennedy when they were listening to the guys
walking on the moon. He heard first hand what Aldrin, Armstrong, Conrad
said and it is all there, and he is speaking out now. He was the director
of Apollo communications, so he heard first hand what they all saw. For
example, "My god NASA, Houston, Houston you have got to see this, this is
incredible, they are here, they were waiting for us." Stuff like that.
Update: Has he written a book?
Bob: Yes, here is a copy. The title is Our Cosmic Ancestors.